Vídeo: 🇸🇪​|​🎙𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗩𝗜𝗦𝗧𝗔: Johan Anderberg (jornalista e escritor)

🗣️ Transcrição automática de voz para texto.

um no masks no lockdowns how did it go for Sweden in the end of the story well that’s kind of interesting cuz uh when you look at the numbers and no matter which uh measurement you choose uh Sweden came out really well in terms of the number of dead um so it’s kind of interesting considering how few restrictions that the Swedish authorities uh put in place yeah comparing to the rest of the world yeah and basically it’s just a few countries that have a lower mortality during the pandemic so that’s kind of fascinating in a way yeah but do you do you agree that this was an inconvenient covid victory for Sweden very inconvenient for the rest of the world definitely cuz so many newspapers and so many TV channels around the world were really um bashing the Swedish strategy instead of taking a more uh uh Curious and scientific approach to what was going on here yeah because the televisions were selling the the fear so Sweden shows the oppos exactly exactly the opposite yeah and it’s kind of sad cuz um I totally understand this like you that you’re allowed to feel fear but you should also keep an interested mind and to and to keep a curious mind and see what’s going on in the world um how how did Swedish Health officials know that this was the correct way it was luck Faith or competence I think it’s mainly competence and also a little bit of St stubbornness cuz when you look at some other countries for instance Denmark and Norway their authorities also wanted to take this Swedish approach as wanted uh some parts of the SW British government as well but um they didn’t really dare following through yeah so um it was definitely competence because when you look at all these pandemic plans from before covid there there was no talk about masks no talk about lockdowns and no talk about anything like this so what they did was pretty much just sticking to the plan and also having the guts to follow through on it um so in your opinion Sweden showed that millions of people in the world uh was were denied freedom for nothing yeah pretty much you can’t into your opinion you can say no that now for nothing because the the result was was the same or or worst in the countries more restrict yeah and I think it’s kind of a fluke that Sweden had such a low mortality I think the measurements the restrictions probably had no effect whatsoever so um I think the reason why SW has had a lower mortality is probably because of the underlying Public Health um and maybe some of the restrictions were detrimental to People’s Health I not really sure about that but maybe so um I think it’s kind of fascinating that uh that we we had this result in the end yeah but um in your opinion uh the the the confinment were held or was about health or political decisions in your opinion you mean the the lockdowns the lockdowns were were decisions for health or a political decision I I think it was mainly based on incompetence cuz uh I think you can you can understand and explain a lot of things with incompetence and I think lots of leaders around the world got scared they didn’t want to be the only ones who took like a different approach yeah like bonaro in Brazil because it was a different approach and they everybody called him genocide and and crazy and Swedish scientists have also like some some Swedish sociologists have shown that the reason why a country isit lockdowns was because some of the neighboring countries instituted lockdowns so it was kind of like anep mic of fear that spread yeah like a domino because if they do we have to do the same because the people will ask us it was not correlated with the number of cases or the number of deaths at all it was only correlated with how uh the neighbors exactly yeah yeah in your book you talk about um her humidity uh so that was the secret for Sweden because um the Sweden has a first big first wave so they acquired the in the first wave that immunity that protected for the following Wing waves that for example my country has yeah especially in Stockholm cuz Stockholm was hit really hard at first and then uh the epidemic waned here but some other parts of the country uh were hit like harder the second time around because they hadn’t been hit the first time around so this her immunity took a while to establish itself but uh that’s definitely a part of uh that was definitely a part of the strategy um not that they wanted people to get infected but they saw that this would end uh by itself pretty much why you you wrote this this book what what what did you think why you didn’t think to to to wrote this book it kind of felt like the story of the century especially in Sweden since uh the rest of the world just instituted these like crazy IDs that no one had tested before and Sweden uh did the complete opposite so I thought it was really really interesting to try and understand what was going on behind the scenes and why they did what they did and and the level of pressure they were under and also how it turned out in the end yeah yeah uh but in 2020 the predictions about the number of deaths that could occur in Sweden were catastrophic I remember 300,000 the the Specialists so I think the best estimate from uh Imperial College was 96,000 dead within three months and the actual number was 6,000 so they overestimated by 2,000% yeah but and they they now apologize about those bad predictions they they admit the error no they they will never admit the error but there is a really interesting scientific discussion underneath the surface between like some mathematicians in Sweden and so on so if you’re really interested in this there’s some interesting stuff to find yes yes um what why why do you think that um the media had try around the world the media tried to hide this Sweden success instead of acclaiming it to the world why in your opinion why they are hiding the Sweden success I mean it’s really uh difficult to retract something and you see this with the Iraq War for instance the people who were like cheering it on none of them have apologies like some of them have to their credit said we were wrong this was a mistake and to be honest some people have said that in Sweden who were like critical of the approach uh and so on but but it’s very very rare and it’s almost like a superpower to admit that you were wrong um about the masks Sweden proven that the masks were a waste of time and money um and some people says that they are also dangerous to to the health so Sweden never uses masks the they they Prov that the mask was completely unnecessary I I have only worn a mask three times in my life and that was when flying to European countries uh so and my kids have never ever worn a mask but it was recommended at Subways for two hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon but pretty much No One abided by it yeah I saw it in 2012 almost nobody with mask so Sweden proves that the mask was not necessary and yeah I think the mask is kind of an interesting question cuz I I’m kind of surprised by how it seems to work yes yes yes I think that’s to um about you talk about children uh this um was the virus was harmless to the children um how did you see for example the schools closing and the confinment lockdowns of children in the other countries you are father how you see that clo schools closed PE children close at home I mean it kind of pains your heart to see that kids were denied education for no reason at all and even when people were um back in school they were forced to wear masks and subject to unnecessary testing and so on yeah that that’s yeah I think the same and what and what about what how do you see the censorship for those who question the official narrative about the pandemics did you felt that censorship no not at all um I think Sweden had a pretty good and nuanced debate overall it’s like very high pitched at times people were like really angry at each other but that’s fine that’s the way it should work in a democracy but it was kind of um scary to see how different descending voices were shut down on Twitter and Facebook for no reason at all um so I think there’s a lot to learn from this episode that you should always like er on the side of Liberty MIT has been said about the comparation with the Scandinavian neighbors um but in the end the results were Not So Different taking into account that Sweden doesn’t have now excess mortality yeah so in the end of the story there is no much difference to Norway what the number says and but people who want to defend the lockdowns they always uh try to compare Sweden with Norway and Denmark and Finland but the thing here is that Denmark was way more open than almost all countries in the world as well cuz they looked at the Swedish approach and they open the schools right back again and in Finland the preschools were only closed for like a few days so all the Scandinavian countries fared really well and all of them were kind of open there was some crazy going on in Norway for instance where they didn’t allow uh young people to do sports for instance but still they went to school they didn’t use masks overly like too much um so um all scandavian countries were pretty open um in my mind very different from Portugal in Portugal two lockdowns everybody clothes everybody with masks so um Sweden had had a much lower vaccination rate than many European countries um 70% I think 73% um it was the it because they prefer to take the natural vaccine with the natural immunity that you talked in your on your book um I’m not really sure about that I think it’s like much higher but it depends on how you count cuz a lot of people haven’t taken a third dose and it also depends cuz we didn’t vaccinate children at all yes so maybe if you if you add that into the final number final numbers is 73 for example in Portugal it’s 93 yeah it’s that because you had that first big wave and people get natural infection and they they choose not to to for example vaccinate children I don’t know what what because it’s 20% difference from Portugal I think in general the vaccines were a little bit overhyped in the beginning cuz a lot of people around the world thought that was going to kill the pandemic yeah but the Swedish authorities actually said that this this won’t change too much in the equation here so and and that was very controversial too so so they just like kept taking like controversial stances throughout but I think they were proven right in that sense as well because lots of uh like the pandemic has definitely continued after the the vaccine yes was available to everyone what what is the biggest uh lesson that we learn from this whole story in your opinion that you shouldn’t act on your first instinct especially as a leader you should take your time and assess the options and try to um keep an open mind to uh like that um and be able to like to always maintain a position where you can retract and like and to to be fair some countries did this like Sweden was open throughout but Denmark Norway and Finland they they changed their opinion about the pandemic throughout and actually Denmark was actually the first country in the world to declare the pandemic totally over um Sweden was actually a little bit after Denmark in that sense so um there there are other countries that have done a fairly good job as well about the ships in um the ships Under the Skin in Sweden can you tell us what is is is it real that the Swedish people has um the ships Under the Skin implant implanted in the skin no that’s not uh I think there was like a news story about it that someone tried it to like uh for Subway tickets or something yeah to open the doors yeah but I don’t think anyone will like follow so he’s not in general use here no and uh I think in general you should be careful about doing surgery unnecessarily yes yes yes but um I think there there there’s like a big tech industry in swen so it’s probably with someone just trying it out but not not for now maybe in the future yeah but I don’t think it will happen ever yeah but I saw that one thing I saw in these days that the money the the physical money is not is not that’s very rare actually they try to to to finish the use of the the the physical money just to pay yeah it’s kind of um because in Portugal we use we pay with notes and coins but here I I never use the coin it’s it’s the change on the strategy Financial strategy you I used to be uh very positive about that but now I’m kind of changing my mind a little bit worri Yeah cuz maybe maybe it’s a good thing like if if you if you’re if you’re unbanked that’s like a thing in the US for instance that you you don’t have access to financial institutions then you have to be able to to pay stuff anyway so maybe I’m I’m slowly changing my mind completely about this it’s [Music] w