Vídeo: Uma Naidoo: alimentação e cérebro não é assim tão simples

🗣️ Transcrição automática de voz para texto.

[Music] I am delighted to welcome you to another episode of It’s not that simple from the Francisco Manuel dantos Foundation today we’re deing delving deep in into a topic which has been gaining significant traction significant attention both in the scientific community and everyday conversations and that is the relationship between what we eat and how we feel and here I’m not talking about feeling physically I’m talking about mentally which is an aspect that we’re going to explore during our conversation with today’s guest who is none other than Dr Uma Naidu a Harvard trained psychiatrist professional chef a nutrition specialist who has been hailed at as the pioneer of nutritional Psychiatry as the Director of nutritional and lifestyle Psychiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital an author of the bestselling book this is your brain on food Dr Naidu has dedicated her career so far to exploring how diet affects mental health so over the next half an hour or so we’re going to break down unpack how food and mood are related Dr Uma Naidu welcome to the show fantastic to see you uh thank you for joining us from the states uh my first question has to be for our audience kind of to set the table uh so to speak to explain exactly in your own words what nutritional Psychiatry is and really how you explain in in your books there is such a strong relationship between diet and mental well-being thank you so much for having me Pedro and that’s a great question I think that people associate food with medical conditions like high blood pressure or type two diabetes they do not associate food with our mental well-being and how we feel emotional and that’s really the Gap that nutritional Psychiatry fills by explaining and unpacking for people where the science is at the gut brain connection especially is one mechanism that helps us understand that and that really is what nutritional Psychiatry encompasses offering real life solutions for people about how they can eat to feel emotionally better that’s a great way to kind of set the scene for this conversation because um as I mentioned in my introduction I believe nowadays we are getting more traction around this topic but at the same time we feel that we’re just taking the first steps and you have helped I think uh uh society as a whole discuss this in a more scientific way so in a scientific way how would you uh explain some relationships between the nutritional value of certain foods and the impact they have in our bodies I think the first thing to understand is that one of the mechanisms that explains this Mood Food Connection is the gut brain connection the gut and brain originate from the exact same cells in the human embryo and they form two different organs the gut and the Brain but this actual communication allows for the fact that the food we eat gets broken down and through the different digestive tract and the rest of the biological systems can actually then impact our mood and how we feel emotionally this is may not happen immediately but it is related to processes like inflammation in the body that get caused by unhealthy eating so if you’re eating mostly fast foods and um drinking soda and uh you know eating of sweet uh sweet treats and things like that especially right now Ultra processed foods the one of biggest problems worldwide those types of food drive and worsen inflammation in the gut and start to break down as unhealthy toxic products by the gut microbes there and those unhealthy products don’t only cause inflammation but they really cause problems for us but when they start causing problems for us physic they also start causing problems emotionally and that’s the important link for us to make it’s it’s undoubted that uh uh in in in today’s society mental health has become a Hot Topic and rightly so um how much of the mental well-being of today’s uh um contemporary youth uh how much of that in your opinion is linked to a diet that has become increasingly based on on F F food as as you were saying now I think that a very large component can actually be helped and solved um I do prescribe medications and they are necessary and can be life-saving for people but it is not the only root and in the youth especially where it’s become attractive to you know eat like we do in America which you know is a lot of fast food and Ultra processed foods and actually a lot of junk Foods while that might be fashionable on one level it’s actually not healthy for our bodies but also not for our brains it’s not just the weight or the metabolism which is hugely important but it’s also the mental well-being so things conditions like anxiety depression brain fog lack of focus lack of energy um you know not being able to complete a task these are things that the youth are struggling with and I think that it is an easy step to start cleaning up how we eating and I want I want to be clear I’m not saying don’t have a piece of cake on your birthday I’m just saying for the most time in the week if you can try to be consuming a healthier diet that is going to be better for your overall health especially your mental health I I will get into some specific examples later because you addressed those in your books and I’ve heard you also talk about them in interviews recently and I think that’s fascinating because all of us want to perform as best as possible in our personal lives in our professional lives and yet we may be affected by the choices we make on a day-to-day basis in what we put in our bodies because essentially we are what we eat and uh if we eat in a responsible and healthy manner it’s part of an education to becoming a better person when you were developing this science and nutritional Psychiatry and you were taking your first steps what was the reaction of the scientific community and how much do you think it’s changed uh uh since then you know I think that fortunately for me um I didn’t I wasn’t exposed to a lot of negative feedback in the sense that I think I was in my clinic and kind of writing papers and doing my work and doing my research and I think the things that have helped this conversation is the very large emerging food is medicine movement um the emergence of of Specialties like lifestyle medicine life lifestyle Psychiatry which is sort of putting lifestyle factors first because remember nutritional Psychiatry is part of a holistic and integrated model where nutrition is the pillar it’s the one thing we can remediate uh because we eat we eat every day we may not exercise every day some people don’t even like to exercise I want to encourage them to do that but we do eat every day so it’s the one thing that we can start to remediate and work on immediately but it’s now grown to be um more front and ENT one of the main topics for the next uh 2025 American Psychiatric association actually around lifestyle factors the amican Psychiatric association has an hosts an annual International Conference hosted in the US and it’s has a very large Global audience but the subject matter is actually lifestyle so it’s important that people now starting to pay attention to that in a very real way what are some of the most common conditions that people people complain to you about when they when they see you because obviously and you mentioned now there’s a strong medical component to dealing with a depression or with anxiety and those are not discounted but from a nutritional aspect what do people complain to you about the most and what guidelines do they ask from you in order to help solve their their issue or issues sure so P the reason that I wrote my second book called calm your mind with food is because anxiety is has massively increased throughout the world we know from research uh published in lcet of a reputable Journal that since covid anxiety has increased by 25% worldwide so if you have a friend a family member coworker who’s feeling more anxious or you’re noticing it it’s probably true because it has you know Co did many things but it also worsened and sort of uncovered the Mental Health crisis so I often will have someone come in complaining of Po sleep or an inability to focus but when I delve deeper and we start to put them on a nutritional psychiatric plan in terms of how they eat and lifestyle factors one of the things they say to me is I’m sleeping better because I’m less anxious at night and I didn’t realize that so often anxiety is that is underlying some of the symptom not always but a lot of the time so I Mo see a lot of anxiety a lot of depression I have people struggling with things like OCD ADHD focus and one of the biggest and hottest topics is our brain health in terms of cognition because everyone wants to be smart and stay smart for as long as we can so eating for your better cognitive Health and Longevity is also a very big part of what people care about there’s a lot of different types of diets that we read about this day right uh these days and we’re all bombarded by different information information coming from different sources so I wanted to get your opinion on for example the Mediterranean uh diet that’s been hailed as as as quite a healthy option and and balanced what’s what’s your view of that diet and the way it’s it’s characterized so I’m a big fan of the medit tranan eating plan I I think that it offers really wonderful Whole Food Solutions for people to choose from um one of the things that I did to make it more um culturally diverse and to be able to include more spices and more dishes exactly um because it’s really based on healthy Whole Foods healthy fats you know um whole proteins nut seeds the correct type of uh olive oils green vegetables all of the stuff that really uh should be the basis of of healthy eating but I also think the addition of spices and flavorful food uh like like you do we have in Portugal um is is a huge Boon and when people feel that healthy food has to be has to taste bad that’s a misnomer that’s a misunderstanding you can eat healthy food that is delicious and I love to take the Mediterranean diet develop recipes as mediterrasian as well so including other cultures other spices um that make it just more interesting so on its own it’s delicious but what if it could be more delicious and you had more options to eat those you know plant rich diets with the healthy proteins uh the beans nut seeds legumes the avocados uh all of the stuff that really makes for I think almost a healthy um I like to think of it’s a healthy framework from which people can make good choices now I believe you grew up with a vegetarian diet um I did what are the benefits of that and and and how how much have you seen uh people switch over and and uh and and reap the re W so to speak or or how much should there be a balance in in your view in in trying to get those proteins from from from both Meat and Fish sure so I grew up vegetarian because it happened to be the family I was raised in I didn’t make that as a Health Choice it was sort of what I was born into but as a chef I cook all types of food and members of my family actually eat different diets so what I would say is that any any diet or so-called uh you know food eating plan that’s being touted by um the the current press can always be tweaked in a healthy direction I think plant rich and plant forward are words we should be using so whether you consume fish whether you eat you know different types of meat uh what whatever your or maybe tofu you know organic tofu whatever your protein sources you can always eat a healthier version of whatever diet it is you don’t have to be vegetarian but the words I like to use are plant forward or plant Bridge meaning lean into those leafy green vegetables those colorful vegetables I like to call it the Kaleidoscope of color which is actually a salad I designed in my second book to make it more interesting than the word rainbow because it really is a collidoscope of colors um and there’s a collidoscope salad in calm your mind with food uh it really made to help people get in as many colors and flavors and textures into just a simple salad and then you can have have your salmon on the side uh you mentioned you know someone mentioned uh that Cod is a favorite uh you know anything that is something you enjoy eating you can add to that so the the the reason we want to be plant fold is it brings fiber to our diet and nutrients in those actual vegetables beans nuts seeds legumes that just naturally will enhance and help your healthy eating they are lower in calories uh depending on how you prepare them but they also bring nutrients like leafy greens in a salad have vitamin B9 which is folate folate is associated with helping to balance your mood so just making sure you have that on a regular basis becomes important I I don’t want to grill you on all these different uh diets and and options but obviously having the opportunity to speak W with some with an expert such as yourself I mean a lot of a lot of people from my generation have tried different types of more extreme diets whether that’s paleo whether that’s intermittent fasting because they say you know they want to go on a detox Etc when people uh uh present these solutions to you which ones is is it a case of uh uh you know solution per body kind of thing or what’s your view on these more extreme extreme diets or or methods so I like actually ped I like how you worded that because it’ be really moving even from when from the time that I start my clinic we’re really moving in a highly personalized position based medicine Direction now because what you may eat and what may work for your mental health may not be the same for me that’s also related to how unique a microbiome is I feel that whatever diet someone comes in with I can always give them guidance about how to make it a little bit healthier so say someone is using intim and fasting and they spoke to their doctor about using a certain fasting window that could work for them and what I what I want to be careful about is that they’re not diabetic and they’re going to have a low blood sugar and only be eating at 12: noon because a low blood sugar could be extremely dangerous for them right so so I think it’s about adjusting for what’s going on in their body and then helping them in each meal or as a meal plan making healthier choices uh sometimes people are eating here’s a great example um people think you know think of yogurt is healthy if they eat consumed Dairy they think yogurt well you know this someone said blueberries are healthy yogurt is healthy it has probiotics let me get a blueberry yogurt well a fruited yogurt the type that has the fruit in it in the US these are pretty unhealthy because they have a ton of added sugar so learn to read your food labels to understand that rather have a plain yogurt add in some berries or your favorite fruit a Sprinkle of cinnamon for sweetness because it’s a delicious brain healthy spice and it also brings sweetness so you sometimes don’t have to add the lots of sugar that that gets added to these foods but that’s a great idea of how that we think a choice that we might be making you mentioned the the the key word there when it comes to dying a couple of times and that’s sugar right especially when you talk about processed foods Ultra processed foods uh I have a young daughter and it it it’s kind of a mission you know that we try to have you know try to avoid uh this kind of processed food and processed sugars how harmful is is sugar for the body and mind Uma when it comes to the effect that it has and you mentioned inflammation so I guess that’s a big component of it but what else from a mood and and equilibrium uh uh perspective you know yes so eating sugar often hidden sugars that we don’t realize on our Foods even Savory Foods like soups of salads or salad dressings sauces can be can be a problem yes sugar drives inflammation it feeds the wrong types of microbes in the gut when the when the bad guys are fed with sugar they get happy and they start to to form toxic substances which not only worsen inflammation but they can be damaging to the gut and even lead over time to conditions like leaky gut sugar also over time damages our brain cells because if you’re eating that high sugar diet all the time you actually over time this has been shown on um you know MRI and imaging studies will actually start to damage neurons so what one of the things we want to think about is where we get our sugar from the the people have low energy a low mood are highly anxious and sometimes it’s driven by the level of sugar that they’re eating and simple tweaks moving from a bag of candy a bottle of soda um chocolate bars and candy bars to more healthy Whole Foods like berries nuts uh chia pudding um you know more salads all of that can and can over time you can track and see how the symptoms slowly start to improve um people don’t often realize how how how much sugar they’re consuming and I hear I hear that all the time and it’s hard it’s hard for all of us because it’s not food everywhere sugar is obviously such um such a a Hot Topic uh I wanted to talk to you about two other ones that cause a lot of dis discussion one of one of which is coffee uh because obviously in in Western society it’s become common to have multiple coffees especially when they’re added with a multitude of of of of of milks or drinks or whatever else you put in in these days here in Portugal it’s still mostly an espresso kind of uh uh dominated Society but it has changed in in the last Decades Coffee as a stimulant uh obviously people use that to increase Focus does it increase focus is it okay for us uh uh from a mental health health perspective to consume it when should we stop consuming it in the day perhaps from an hour perspective and is there something else that we can substitute uh coffee with to to to add focus and and deal with a foggy brain sure so it’s completely fine to consume coffee if it works for you and it doesn’t cause you to be jittery or uncomfortable or more anxious some people can’t tolerate coffee and then it’s not for them coffee on its own has plant polyphenols it’s actually good substance it has good impacts on the liver the brain many parts of the body it’s how much you drink what time you drink it and what you add to it so if you’re adding a lot of syrup and all these colorings and flavorings coffees that’s a disaster because you’re consuming empty calories but if you’re having an espresso if you’re having black pepper coffee or a cup of coffee with you know a milk that’s a healthier version could be you know if you consume Dairy a little bit bit of that if it’s a plant milk it could be some of that to make it you know so maybe you don’t like black coffee that is a different it’s different from the fancy coffee drinks consume it early in the day um Studies have shown that when you consume above about 400 milligrams in a day you can that can drive or worsen your anxiety so I say to people have one to three you know um sort of small cups early in the day stop drinking around 12 or 2 p.m. because it really does it can disrupt your sleep because of the um halflife but the other thing that you can do instead is have coffee in the morning enjoy your cup of coffee but in the afternoon switch to something like green tea which actually helps people with Focus because of the very powerful antioxidants that are green tea so have green tea people get a little bit of energy without that caffeine effect um and they also feel a little bit more focused so green tea is a great choice to switch too late in the day or if you don’t consume coffee it’s a great option for you to try MH um alcohol um we we uh here in in southern Europe as you know it’s not so much spirits but there’s a lot of wine it’s a wine culture and yes you know it’s easy to find Specialists or uh experts who might come in and say okay well you know a glass of wine is actually uh uh good for for the mind for the body for this reason for that but at the end of the day alcohol is toxic for the body correct so whatever way you look at it there’s no way to say Hey you know this is actually quite good for you in in this aspect or or in that aspect where do you where do you stand on the on on on on alcohol and different types maybe and obviously it depends on the volume right on the quantities volume the quantity yeah but a glass of wine uh sorry so no no so I think you know no I I didn’t mean to speak um think I think that I think that with whether it comes to you know someone from the plant-based movement asking me about red meat or whether it comes from someone who may not consume alcohol and the discussion about alcohol I think about food in the broadest categories and the reason I do that is I have to think of what most people eat and do more people can not consume alcohol so my guidance about it is yes in high amounts um you know in excessive amounts if it’s a very colorful mix to drink uh and then and sort of has a lot of sugars and a lot of lures and it could be much uh you know much worse for you but I think in moderation as an occasional something that you enjoy dinner um including the types of wine I think the biggest thing is in moderation and with mindful with with sort of mindfulness meaning you’re not drinking a ton you might have it as an enjoyment maybe you don’t drink at all then it’s not for you um but I think having having some guidance around it like I call it a clean cocktail or a clean cup of coffee I describe a clean cup of coffee clean a cocktail if it’s a spirit it’s Spirit would say a squeeze of lime or a splash of soda water versus a juice or a syrup or another lure that’s if you consume alcohol the effects of alcohol and there are some mixed Studies by the way there studies that only call it toxic and doctors some doctors that say you know never never consume a glass wine or Spirit but then you know the studies are not uh equivocal in terms of saying never consume alcohol so all I’m all I feel is to give guidance to the person who comes in and says well I’m having this amount and I might say well can we find a way to cut back on that can we tweak what you’re doing can we clean up that cocktail um and if someone comes in and they’re not drinking alcohol by all means I’m not going to say start having a glass of wine no uh I work with you know I sort of meet people where they’re at in terms of what they’re doing mhm uh now obviously you’re you’re a doctor you’re a scientist you’re also a chef uh and I wanted to kind of ask you if there are any recipes that are your favorites that are balanced and maybe think of the Portuguese audience here we have a lot of fish uh we love our CAU fish here as well and I know omegas omegas obviously are quite important right for the for the for the mind and for the brain so um what are some recipes easy recipes maybe simple recipes that you would recommend that we should look at for go goto meals when we don’t really know what to do and we want to go for a for a mindful healthy option right so I think leaning into spices is always a good idea spices and fresh herbs uh which make whether it’s card or any other fish more flavorful and more delicious uh for what you’re eating in my first book this is your brand on food I have a fisherman stew and uh you know Cod can be used as one of the healthy Seafoods in that um it’s it’s a good idea something that you know you can make and enjoy in the winter months maybe and then I think uh using that for some form of ciche if that is something you eat again you know the fresh Citrus is great um have make small batches enjoy it because it can be flavorful you can add some um you know a great recipe with some spices to it then I think using methods of cooking um a quick paner or an air fryer or or um you know even a baked dish but I think what I want people to think about is leaning to the flavors of the spices because if it’s just a pure spice it doesn’t have added calories salt or sugar in it it’s just a spice so it’s flavoring your food whether it’s a touch of paprika or it’s you know um oregano whatever you may enjoy in your um well tedo what’s a favorite spice that’s added to a lot of the Foods would you say in a typical dish um because I I think I would would guess that a lot of those would go with fish yeah and and there’s such a big difference between a a sauce and a spice right and and and the spice yeah and the spice is is is is so much cleaner in that sense it is and because the sauce sometimes a great you know great chest will add sugar to their sauce because it B the flavor butter and cream you know which which by the way fats on their own if you’re metabolically flexible and healthy those types of fat are okay in moderation but if we struggling to you know to be a little bit healthier they shouldn’t be what you lead with so you have a good point there but if you know using fresh beautiful tomatoes with some olive oil and um fresh herbs like basil or whatever you have you know use what’s in season that’s another another way to think about it to flavor and make simple sauces that are just delicious and also you know what’s going into your sauce you know what’s going into your spice mix that you marinate your Seafood with or you brush it with a little bit of avocado oil or you grill it or whatever it might be think think about it uh this way last question before we move to our to our quick fire um is there any particular area of your work right now that is exciting you more than others whether that’s in something that you’ve discovered recently or you’re looking into that can kind of Advance your work or progress your work in an area maybe you weren’t expecting sure so you know there’s some recent work um and research that’s emerged on the gut microbiome and what strains of microbes are contained in it and the development of conditions like autism which have also increased in the world and I’m very excited to delve deeper into that because I feel like if we we understood it we could work on this in a dietary way as well as everything else that we might use so I’m very excited about I’m always excited about the Gap microbiome but I’m especially excited now with some these because these are conditions I hear about all the time and uh I think the more we know the more we can help people to think about um whether it’s the teens that in our lives or the younger uh children how to start eating healthy from a healthy age from a young age okay good to know uh so quick fire here we go uh one sentence uh answers or onew answers if you prefer uh what is one personality trait that a good leader could benefit from having according to your experience and expertise um I think just having I think being compassionate and kind is hugely important and understanding people okay what is the biggest challenge humanity is facing in your opinion at the moment um I really feel it’s the Mental Health crisis because if we can’t think well and our brains are not functioning optimally everything else um is impacted including including our physical health for sure if you could change one thing right now uh whether it’s by magic or by science uh what what would it be I guess I would want to make healthy food accessible to everyone and have that be uh you know almost be able to to obliterate food deserts and food poverty and food aparte because then people would have act what they do with it is that different level of educa is a different sort of factor of how you educate and help people understand because if someone only has access to fast foods how are they going to know that eating vegetables are healthy right exactly and supermarkets play up to that a lot as well don’t they they make those cheap and processed foods available right there easily available exactly last one what’s the most important uh learning of your of your life uh the most important learning for me uh was something IMA told me many years ago which was you can always ask a busy person something because they know how to manage their time and that stuck with me because people often um ask me how do I manage this or how do I do that part of it is really understanding that principle um I don’t always get it rights in fact sometimes it’s pretty hard but I remember it as something that inspires me yeah I think today in in today’s world as well where it seems like speed is prioritized over everything else um it it’s definitely an important skill to have in order to be able to to to build some equilibrium into into our lives and into our routines um Dr um I do thank you so much for your time it’s been a pleasure privilege to to get to learn from you um continued success in in your work and uh hope that our paths cross down the line uh one day thank you so much Petro thank you for having me it was great to talk with you of course um amazing episode of It’s not that simple uh really delving deep into a topic which concerns us all choices we make every day in order to be healthier be sharper be more productive be uh uh better people better partners and uh I think after this conversation we’re at least better informed in order to uh uh reach those goals so um great to have you along for the ride on this episode and see you soon [Music]